Russians to build nuclear-powered Mars craft?

[icemanmd]

If this is a repost please direct me to the thread! I looked and didnt see it mentioned.
Well there is only one real reason I can see this being pushed forward. Some one wants to goto mars and in a hurry!
I really hope they do it, boy would that start a space race for sure...

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20091029/ttc-russia-proposes-nuclear-spaceship-e1d36ba.html

[Zipi]

Wow. Hopefully they manage to pull this off, because there are so many space projects that have existed only on paper. But does somebody know exactly which nuclear technology they plan to use?

Here are a couple of Wikipedia articles about the topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_thermal_rocket
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_electric_rocket

And related to the last Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Prometheus

[tanstaafl76]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091029/ap_ ... _spaceship

I thought this was interesting, here comes the Leonov!!

[MeteorWayne]

There are at least 3 threads on this, they will eventually be combined. Your title is the clearest so might be the lucky winner where they all wind up!

[icemanmd]

Welp looks like I guessed right.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091029/ap_on_sc/eu_russia_nuclear_spaceship

[jakethesnake]

Hmmmmm… Sounds dangerously close to VASIMR?

I wonder if Chang-Diaz is talking to the Russian’s?

Associated Press

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091029/ap_ ... _spaceship

Lisov said Soviet work on a nuclear-powered electric rocket engine dates back to the 1960s when Soviet engineers began developing plans for a manned flight to Mars.

Here is what Franklin Chang-Diaz said in an interview with SEEDMAGAZINE.COM

October 30, 2009

Former astronaut Franklin Chang-Diaz explains how his plasma rocket engine could revolutionize space travel and why we need nuclear power in space.

A Rocket for the 21st Century Power Player / by Lee Billings / September 29, 2009

Seed: But the larger versions of VASIMR really need nuclear power to perform. What if NASA chooses not to develop space-based nuclear power?

FCD: We would hope that, if not the US, maybe the Europeans, the Chinese, the Russians, or somebody else will develop a nuclear-electric power capability that we can marry up to this rocket. We have to realize that the US is no longer the only player. The US may choose not to do this, but that doesn’t mean the rest of the world will follow—not anymore. We no longer live in a confrontational world like the one that fueled the Apollo program in the 1960s. We live in a world that has to cooperate, to collaborate. The US has a tremendous opportunity to still be the leader here, but if it isn’t, others will be. Information is traveling faster everywhere now; technology has gained a foothold and developed in the nooks and crannies of the planet. The world has changed, and the US no longer has a monopoly on knowledge. We need to collaborate to build a capable space infrastructure so that we can truly explore.

[SpaceXFanMobius57]

I don't care who does it, as long as somebody does. Though, Russia doing it first would put panic in US and cause NASAs budget to get increased signifigantly.

It would be better if it was an international effort though.

[andrew_t1000]

Those two news stories where a bit "off"!
What's wrong with Soyuz? It works! It's cheap because they turn them out "like sausages"!
Ok, the airframe is 40 years old, but you can bet the avionics would be state of the art.
What I found most interesting is the estimated cost of the proposed Mars/Interplanetary spaceship!
Like about 1/4 of VASMIR or less!
We in the west like to joke about all Russian aircraft and spacecraft looking like they were "made in the glorious Red Tractor Factory", but they work and work damn well.
In the early days they lost cosmonauts, but in the end they came up with an enduring technology that has a continuity NASA lacks.
I think that comes from having a very finite budget.
I will always remember the PBS documentary "New Star Rising", when Russian engineers talked about the US$11 billion that NASA had spent on ISS mockups and feasibility studies, they were horrified.
I can't remember which Russian designer it was, but he said straight up, "Do you know what we could do with 11 billion dollars?"
I can visualise the Russian Mars ship, 1 or 2 Salyut modules, just like they proposed for their moon landing, powered with a nuclear booster.
I just hope the rest of the world gets onboard, rather than have another space race.

[astc]

anyone got information on nuclear powered satellites?
thanks

[EarthlingX]

I think they plan a nuclear thermal reactor style engine, not plasma.
I'm guessing it's gonna be something like this:
(Russian Nuclear Rocket Engine Design for Mars Exploration)

Abstract: This paper is to promote investigation into the nuclear rocket engine (NRE) propulsion option that
is considered as a key technology for manned Mars exploration. Russian NRE developed since the 1950s in
the former Soviet Union to a full-scale prototype by the 1990s is viewed as advantageous and the most suitable
starting point concept for manned Mars mission application study. The main features of Russian heterogeneous
core NRE design are described and the most valuable experimental performance results are
summarized. These results have demonstrated the significant specific impulse performance advantage of
the NRE over conventional liquid rocket engine (LRE) propulsion technologies. Based on past experience,
the recent developments in the field of high-temperature nuclear fuels, and the latest conceptual studies, the
developed NRE concept is suggested to be upgraded to the nuclear power and propulsion system (NPPS),
more suitable for future manned Mars missions. Although the NRE still needs development for space application,
the problems are solvable with additional effort and funding.

Most of the problems associated with nuclear pollution
hazards are expected to be solved by operating the
NRE only 1000 km above the earth in orbit.

http://qhxb.lib.tsinghua.edu.cn/myweb/e ... 52-260.pdf

It looks as if money will now come.

The nuclear engine for space rockets - seemingly a distant dream of science fiction writers - was, it turns out, not only developed in the top-secret design offices, but also manufactured, and then tested on the proving grounds. "Это была нетривиальная работа", - говорит генеральный конструктор Воронежского федерального государственного предприятия "КБ химавтоматики" Владимир Рачук. "It was a trivial job," - the general designer of the Voronezh Federal State Enterprise "KB Khimavtomatika Vladimir Rachuk. В его устах "нетривиальная работа" означает очень высокую оценку сделанного. In his mouth "non-trivial work" means a very high estimate was made.

(2009.11.09 Added link to the article origin of the picture)

[jakethesnake]

I think you are correct in that they are proposing a nuclear electric propulsion or NEP.

Also, good find by the way.

After reading this paper dated June of 2007 “Russian Nuclear Rocket Engine Design for Mar Exploration” I get the distinct impression that this is another Russian pipe dream.

Here is another article on the same topic.

From CSMonitor.com

By Fred Weir | Correspondent 10.29.09

http://features.csmonitor.com/globalnew ... t-to-mars/

President Dmitry Medvedev says Russia will spend $600 million on a nuclear-powered spacecraft to take men to Mars, and beyond. Is it safe?

What a joke!

[EarthlingX]

Last time i checked all Russian space budget was around 2 G $, comparing to USA 19 G$, so 600 M$ is for Russians as if USA would put 5 $G in such a project. How funny would that be ?

[scottb50]

I think you are correct in that they are proposing a nuclear electric propulsion or NEP.

Also, good find by the way.



What a joke!

Flash Gordon comes to mind. Sparks and smoke.

The mass required for Solar, as compared to Nuclear, is less for the same output, even with today's technology. Tethered Solar Arrays miles away in matched orbits could power a high power ion engine. Maybe quicker Mars trips. Cyclers that just get faster, docking would be intriguing.

[EarthlingX]

The mass required for Solar, as compared to Nuclear, is less for the same output, even with today's technology.

That is a news to me. Last time i checked nuclear provided higher power density than solar, even in earth orbit, not to mention a little bit out.

(Stretched Lens Array SquareRigger (SLASR): A New Space Array for High-Power Missions)
http://www.stretchedlensarray.com/Paper ... WCPEC4.pdf

· Areal Power Density = 300 - 400 W/m2
· Specific Power = 300 W/kg - 500 W/kg
· Stowed Power = 80 - 120 kW/m3
· Scalable Array Power = 4 kW to 100’s of kW’s
· Super-Insulated Small Cell Circuit = High-Voltage (300-
600 V) Operation at Low Mass Penalty
· Super-Shielded Small Cell Circuit = Excellent Radiation
Hardness at Low Mass Penalty
· 85% Cell Area Savings = 66% to 75% Lower Array Cost
per Watt than One-Sun Array
· Modular, Scalable, & Mass-Producible at MW’s per Year
Using Existing Capacities

comparing to

Hyperion generator with 27 MWe/7t = 3,6 MWe/t
(VASIMR, Uranium Hydride Reactor, Direct Conversion of Heat or Radiation to Electricity - update)
http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/10/vasimr ... irect.html

More here :
VASIMR based spaceship for heliosphere